Episode 151: The Hidden Impact of Achievement Stress (on you and your family)

How often do we unknowingly contribute to achievement toxicity in our children's lives? Unmasking this heavy topic, my co-host Lisa and I explore the devastating impacts and discuss ways to break free from this unhealthy pursuit of excellence. Taking cues from a report by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, we examine how excessive pressure to excel ranks as a prominent environmental stressor impacting adolescent wellness. Our conversation navigates the tragic consequences habitual tendencies and conditioned responses could lead to and emphasizes the need for greater awareness and understanding in our parenting approach.

However, there's more to parenting than just mitigating pressures. The juggle between nurturing our children's individual interests and exposing them to new experiences can be daunting. We tackle this challenge head-on - discussing the importance of quality time, the freedom for our children to experience boredom, and striking the right balance between our aspirations for them and their own passions. We delve into the potential of affirmations and the key role of effective communication in aligning our values to those of our children. Our dialogue also warns against our expectations overshadowing precious family moments.

The episode culminates with a deep introspection on the need to overcome achievement toxicity. We encourage parents to reflect upon their own self-worth, beyond external accomplishments, and translate that critical understanding to their children. Resisting the urge to overcommit ourselves and our children, we argue, is a key step towards healthier, happier families. The potency of affirming words cannot be understated - it's these verbal assurances that can help our children realize their inherent value, independent of achievements. Join us in this enlightening conversation, as we strive to usher in a change for the betterment of our children.

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Book Referenced:  Never Enough by Jennifer Wallace

Chapters

• 0:00 Breaking Free From Achievement Toxicity
• 9:27 Balancing Overachieving Parenting and Children's Activities
• 21:34 Living Your Values as Parents
• 31:57 Overcoming Achievement Toxicity

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Paradigm you podcast. How do you know that you matter? You're listening to the Paradigm you podcast and on this week's episode, my co-host, lisa Sarnowski, and I unpacked that exact question. We untangled the concept of self-worth from achievement and recognized that it's not about the achievement, but it's truly about the journey. Listen in.

Speaker 2: 0:25

You're listening to the Paradigm you podcast. You're about to start transforming your life by growing your mind and expanding your paradigms. Here we'll cover real-life topics, just like the stuff you'd share with a good friend. This podcast will serve up topics that weigh on our hearts and keep us up at night, whether it's navigating parenthood and becoming an adult, or way-finding person of development, marriage and money. You, my friend, are in the right place. I'm glad you're here.

Speaker 1: 0:49

All right, well, welcome to the Paradigm you podcast. It's another week and I am here with the lovely co-host, lisa Sarnowski, and my name is April Marluski-Hadzinski, and together we are pretty excited to talk about this topic and I'm going to throw it right over to Lisa, because this topic came out of something she witnessed and it just sent us on a huge, awesome conversation and we want to invite you to be part of it.

Speaker 4: 1:14

Thank you, april. It's so great to be back here with you and talking about achievement toxicity as parents. This is a new passionate topic of mine, and let me tell you where it started. So my son joined Cross Country this year, so it's first time Cross Country and that kid I used to joke. He never learned how to walk, he learned to run. So I was really excited to see how well he would do, and it turns out he's actually kind of slow.

Speaker 4: 1:49

And what was interesting about that process was for me and my inside game as a parent, thinking through oh my goodness, why is he so slow? But equally observing what happened afterwards. Because afterwards he told me that there was a pack of girls from his team cheering him on but saying, come on, slow Pokes. And then there was someone in the crowd that said, oof, I'm going to have to go running with him, as if to imply. And that really caught me off guard because it made me more aware of my own thoughts. Because as I reflected on the race, every time I looked at him he had the biggest smile on his face. He was so happy to just be participating, to run alongside a buddy, and isn't that enough? And so I was going to post something on Facebook and then I found this article by chance and it talks about achievement toxicity with kids, and that's what I want to talk to you about today.

Speaker 1: 2:57

You know, when Lisa brought this up, I loved this concept because it's well. Quite frankly, it put a lump in my throat because this is something that I've talked with Lisa about for a really long time, because and actually I've probably shared on some of the episodes as well this is a struggle that I've had personally, just wanting to constantly achieve the next thing, achieve the next thing and placing value on the achievement instead of the journey. And it was interesting when Lisa, when you brought this up, I was like, oh, I can totally relate. So it was actually quite funny that you said hey, I want to talk about this topic because I'm like yes, I am a recovering overdoer. Yes, you are. I don't know if I'm recovering, I'm working through it.

Speaker 4: 3:48

It is a work in progress for you for sure. Well, what really stood out to me is when I read this article. First of all, I we can link this, maybe in the show notes apes for everybody but what I want. What really stood out to me is, in a little bit of context here, back when I worked in higher education and it was, I think, my second job in higher ed I was working over at UW Milwaukee. There was a professional development opportunity over in Madison with a guy named Tim Wise. At the time he was pretty new. Now he's a very, very well-known anti-racism speaker and it wasn't positioned as anti-racism back then because that wasn't the vernacular. However, when I went to this, this professional development opportunity, he was speaking about drug use and who abuses them the most. And typically, when you say that, an image comes to mind and it's usually not the image of a suburban white child, however disproportionately so that's the demographic that's misusing drugs. So already back then, I had this idea of what we're visually told and what some of our assumptions are aren't necessarily accurate. So when I read this statistic on achievement toxicity, it really floored me.

Speaker 4: 5:12

Back in 2018, there was a report done by what is called the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which is about public health and policy, and they named the top four environmental conditions that negatively impact adolescent wellness. Now, we've known for a while now. Anyone that's kind of dabbled into this world or listened in on adverse effects for parenting will know that they've studied poverty, trauma, discrimination, those huge topics. We've known that for decades, but the new one that has popped up is this quote-unquote excessive pressure to excel. So, according to the report, a family or school environment characterized by extreme pressure to succeed or outdo everyone else, often, but not exclusively, occurring in especially affluent communities, can affect youth in significantly, in significant ways, including causing high levels of stress, anxiety, alcohol, drug use and dependence In some instances. This led me to a book where it really does talk of it. It can lead even to child suicide.

Speaker 4: 6:29

And I started thinking well, april, right, you're my bestie, I get that. Like you are an avid doer. We've talked about that. I think you've shared with the listeners on a lot of podcasts. Some of that is a conditioned response, right, a habitual response. At this point, would you say that, yeah, definitely, yeah, I've had the other effect.

Speaker 4: 6:53

I'm on the other side of the coin, growing up for me, I was. I have vivid memories of being bored a whole lot and I joke that out of boredom came my obsessive passion for organizing, because I just remember organizing and reorganizing things. But as families we didn't go and do things on weekends, we just kind of hung out. So I started wondering where did my parental drive come for this achievement? Because it wasn't inherent to me. Yes, I can be competitive, but I'm not competitive for competitive sake. Where did I get wrapped up in this idea of like being with the Joneses or that my kids grades need to be a certain way, or I would just have those thoughts and that's been really interesting for me to unpack and just really lean into and learn more about and look around and go. What are we doing? Why am I in February signing my kids up for camps in the summer? What is that? And you know it's mind blowing to me and the pressure that not only puts on the family structure and a lot of times those sort of activities get planned by the mothers but also what kind of inherent pressure is that telling our kids?

Speaker 4: 8:14

And the biggest takeaway for me is that in reading this book that I will share the title to in a second, let me just pull it up here. It's called Never Enough when Achievement Culture Becomes Toxic and what we Can Do About it, and this is an award-winning journalist called Jennifer Wallace. It's an extraordinary book. I'm almost all the way through it, but what she talks about is that kids inherently walk away, identifying that their achievement or performance is what makes them worthy. They are only worthy based on their achievement, based on their performance, and that, to me, was a big message. I wanna make sure that our kids know they're worthy because they're here and anyway, I have a lot to say on all of this, but I'm curious what's standing out to you as a parent and someone who's equally navigating her own journey through overachievement?

Speaker 1: 9:24

Oh, lees, you're making me wanna cry. I can relate so deeply, being somebody who, growing up, was that overachieving person I've shared with you. I think I was in every club available to me at one point in my high school career and, quite frankly, probably not enjoying any of them, but feeling like I needed to be part of all of these things because I needed to. Of course I gotta try that, and I think it started, though, with curiosity I wanna check these out, like that sounds interesting. Ooh, that sounds interesting. But then it turned into a let's do that, let's do this, let's try these things.

Speaker 1: 10:09

And now, as a parent, I am wrestling with that as a habit so deep it's, so deeply ingrained in me. And my husband so, tony, he's the opposite. He's much like you, did not grow up like that and cannot even wrap his mind around the idea of our children being involved in a bajillion things. Fun fact my kids just told me this weekend that bajillion is not an actual one. I have not confirmed that, but apparently I should stop using that one. But we wrestle with this in our home all the time.

Speaker 1: 10:46

When my kids were younger, I did feel that pressure to engage them in a lot of different activities, because I had heard from parents that were a couple of steps ahead of me hey, if you don't get your kids involved in some of these things, they won't actually get to participate. By the time that, quite frankly, I probably started participating in these things, yeah, and recognizing the pressure that I felt it. And then, all of a sudden, the conversations that happened in our home of what are our values, what is okay with us and what are we willing to commit to, and how do we want to teach our kids their own choices, but also role model, a lot of different things with regards to involvement and activities, education, all sorts of things, lees, but what we have decided is we wanna teach our kids how to be engaged in community and how to build relationships and how to try things that they may not necessarily try, and if they like it, we support it. However, we have some boundaries, and I'm guessing you do too.

Speaker 1: 12:00

I'd be interested to hear what you think but we have a boundary in our home that our kids can't participate in more than one thing at a time, with the caveat that they have to do something that I choose too. So right now, for example, my youngest has to finish swimming lessons because I feel like that's a safety piece for me. My older kids have already done that, and so my older kids, I'm like, all right now I want you guys to try something a little bit more creative that you might not necessarily try on your own. So they're both trying piano right now and, interestingly, they both are digging it. That's awesome. They wouldn't have tried that on their own. Then, beyond that, I encourage them to be part of something, to build a relationship and for, ideally, just to figure out what they actually like.

Speaker 4: 12:48

Yeah, you know there's a I love all of that. There's definitely seasons with parenting, right, Cause at a particular age you're like you just want to expose them to different things and, for better or worse, as parents nowadays we have access to so many opportunities, especially when you drill down into what this book and these statistics are referring to. They're talking about the top 25 to 20% of earners which, according to the book, statistically, regardless of family size, is earning 130,000 or above. So we have access to things there's, especially when you live close or nearby to a city. In a city, there's museums everywhere. There's universities everywhere.

Speaker 4: 13:32

With the advent of online learning opportunities, depending on how you choose to engage that with your kids, nowadays there's kind of an endless supply. So, on the one hand, exposure is easier to find. On the other hand, it delineates the opportunity to create those communities right, Because now you're just with whomever you're with in those pockets, unless you facilitate getting a group of kids together. But there's also that season of life where the kids starts to find what they really enjoy and then you want to foster that as well as continue to expose them to other things that they're not learning in the classroom, and this is an equal passion of mine is the school systems can only teach so much. And as parents, I feel like and it took me a long while to get here, April can test to it but as parents, it's ultimately our responsibility to fill the gaps of education that we want them to learn, and that's beyond just life skills. But I can tell you right now my kid's school is never gonna have a robotics class, right, so I need to find that elsewhere.

Speaker 4: 14:43

And for a while, as I reflect back and after I read this article and now book, I was thinking man, have I been pushing my kids too much? Have I been getting them way too involved? Have I become part of that process, that achievement toxicity that's all over in our neighborhoods. It's just rampant to be in more activities and posted on social to make sure all the parents see the amazing basketball camp that you were just at, or whatever. And then I realized I may have been at one point, but now I'm really focused and intentional about figuring out who this unique individual is and unearthing what they're passionate about and finding ways to foster that outside of possibly just the school structure, because we can and there's a dance of not feeling guilty about having access to allow my kids these opportunities.

Speaker 4: 15:43

But there's also, to your point, the time and reflection needed to come back to values, where I want you to just be bored. You know I want you to be uncomfortable. My son especially does not like being bored, so I forced those opportunities on him and it's interesting to navigate those conversations alongside him. He can read tens of thousands of pages a year, so I have no concerns there. Academics come easy. Social skills are, you know, still developing for him.

Speaker 4: 16:17

But the excessive need to build a resume already when you're in middle school, that's a lot of what the book is talking about. And it's fascinating to me how I'm not sure if the listeners both know our higher ed background they probably know more about yours, but April and I both have extensive professional services, student affairs in our background. So higher education is a big value for us and I'm not going to speak for April, but for me in this day and age to come out and say I don't know if my kids are going to college. That's a big deal for me to say, Not because I don't believe in higher education, but because I believe it has a place and it doesn't necessarily mean every kid needs to, and the research in this book for anyone with older kids, especially those in high school, applying to colleges. You want to read this book because we don't get a kickback on this book or anything. I just think it's that valuable for parents nowadays to know they're not alone, to know what their kids are honestly struggling with and to rest assured that, regardless of where they go to college, it doesn't have to be Ivy League for them to have the financial success if that's what's really pushing people today. So the statistics in the book are fascinating and it's a solid reminder as parents that love showing your kid how to live their values and really focusing on mental health and their overall health is really what's going to catapult them forward.

Speaker 4: 17:56

April. 65% of the jobs that are going to be available for our kids don't even exist in our world today. They don't even exist, and I keep telling my son that he's a big numbers guy as a way to say. You don't have to pick your profession now. You don't have to know that you, if you do great and if it's a particular industry where you need college, absolutely let's figure that out for you. But equally, there's so many opportunities available in our world today that patting your resume, constantly having to do, do, do, do, isn't going to help our kids at all.

Speaker 4: 18:34

And there's a story in the book about a football team. This is a high school football team and, to their credit, they rallied together to pitch literally to their head coach. I believe they wrote it out I might be getting some of those details wrong, but they pitched to their coach that they wanted one day off a week, and you know what they wanted to do in their one day off a week. And this is high school kids one day off a week so they could sleep, catch up on homework and spend time with their family. Holy cow, that that is incredible. Now, what an amazing team that was able to come together and say this isn't okay. Practicing doing all the things seven days a week is way too much. And why have we let that happen as parents? Why are we saying that this is the only way to success is to burn yourself out.

Speaker 1: 19:35

It's a competitive space. It really is. I think that's part of it. I think oftentimes, as parents, I mean, we've talked with, with people who've come to us and shared their personal stories and they said, you know, I look outward and I see my, my kids, opportunities and I hear what everybody else is doing and I feel like gosh, I need to get them involved in more, more and more. And at no point in some of those conversations are we hearing how they're pivoting the conversation to why the child matters.

Speaker 1: 20:10

Yes, but here's the other piece, lisa. Like we can get on the soapbox right Of, like parenting and what we think people should be doing and what we think we should be doing. Yeah, and it actually has to start with us. Yeah, we have to make sure that we understand and we truly believe to our core that we matter 100%, and then that, and we're role modeling that, yeah, we're showing our, our children and these little eyes who are watching us, hey, I matter, no matter what I'm involved in, I matter and I'm here, I'm on this planet at this moment in time for a reason Amen.

Speaker 4: 20:52

Absolutely. I love that and that's you know I'm. I'm having a hard time talking because that that is exactly that is the core of this is, as parents, we have to heal first, whatever that means for us and knowing we matter. That was that one question that brought me to my knees and made me sob. I'll never forget that moment, and mattering is really the way forward and making sure our kids know that unconditionally. Hey, the, the score you get on your assessment, that's great, that's the number, but you're not defined by the number. I'll love you anyway. And so I think it's us equally learning that for our own self, reminding ourselves that, hey, it's not about the fact that we I don't know that we ran a mile in two minutes.

Speaker 1: 21:50

Our house is totally clean.

Speaker 4: 21:52

Yes, our house is clean, or we have the biggest house on the block, or you know, whatever that is. I think that's important. And then I think it's important that we are aware of how we engage our kids. If the first thing we do after school when we see our kids is ask them how their test went, it could be a very innocuous, very simple question, but it's reaffirming to them that whatever they do, however they perform, could be linked to their worth. And so just greeting them hey, how's it going?

Speaker 4: 22:27

And bringing that up later because we're parents, of course we wanna put a pulse on it and sadly, these kids don't necessarily just share all the nitty-gritty details we wanna learn. But I think it's equally being aware of those moments and understanding that your worth is not tied to the number. We talk about that in female diet culture all the time. Right, step on the scale, do what you need to do to track data, but let's not make it personal and the number doesn't reflect your worth. So let's start doing that with our kids, with all the assessments they're doing and all the tests they're doing.

Speaker 1: 23:05

And as a parent oh, go ahead.

Speaker 4: 23:06

Yeah, well, I was just gonna say my love language is words of affirmation, so if I'm not saying it, it doesn't connect with my brain as much. And I know that my son is as well, which is why I'm a big. We're big verbal communicators in the family.

Speaker 1: 23:21

to demonstrate that At least what I was gonna say was thinking through what our values are, ourselves and our parents, communicating that and even having that time to actually have a conversation with our children to make sure that they're in line with those values, and then encouraging them. Hey, you know what? Be creative, be critical thinkers, ask questions, challenge us on these values, but let's collectively decide what those values are, because then that creates the boundaries to allow us to say is it a hell yes, or is it a hell no, whatever, whether it's academics or it's activities, involvement of some sort or spending even too much time. You know, I don't remember if I shared this, but two weekends ago I was harvesting honey. Did I share this last week?

Speaker 4: 24:15

Oh, yes, yeah, I don't know if it was on the podcast.

Speaker 1: 24:18

So okay, so well for listeners. I'm a beekeeper love, love, honey bees. They're so fascinating to me. Harvesting honey is a huge pain in my butt, not my favorite thing to do, and what I realized in that process because I had a whole weekend to really reflect on that was why am I doing this? Is it bringing me joy? And if there's a piece of it that's not bringing me joy, what am I not willing to continue on? What do I need to maybe recalibrate or sift through?

Speaker 1: 24:52

And it happened again actually this weekend I took the kids apple picking and all of a sudden, our whole weekend was hijacked by prepping and doing all of the fall things that we like to do. And halfway through I asked the kids. I said you guys, do we even enjoy this, or are we doing this just because this is something we've done every year? And it was actually really interesting to hear each of their perspectives and here, do they enjoy it, or do they just be like, oh well, my mom did this? So then my mom drags us to this and has done this since we were kids, so I should like to do this.

Speaker 3: 25:29

And when I got really deep.

Speaker 1: 25:31

I started asking myself wait a sec. Did my parents used to take me to go do these things? Because, quite frankly, I'm not a baker. I don't like baking. My applesauce is disgusting I don't even like applesauce and, honestly, we just really like to dehydrate them all, so it's not even driven by that. So what is the value piece? So we had a great conversation as a family over the weekend of what are the values and why are we choosing these activities Because, quite frankly, we all have the same amount of time.

Speaker 4: 26:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:07

And what we do with that time and how we decide to use that time is going to be a reflection of our environment.

Speaker 4: 26:15

Yeah, absolutely. The values talk is a big one. It's one I haven't fostered intentionally enough with my kids. I'm curious how the listeners, how you, foster those conversations. I know that it was just the autumn equinox this past Saturday and talking about how far we've come this year and, equally, where we want to go.

Speaker 4: 26:37

I'll be upfront and say that I started crying because I want to be more intentional with our time. On the one hand, by the time our week is done, my kids are tired and I want to honor that, and so living your values equally means slowing down and being okay and finding the parents that are willing to have these conversations with, because they exist. There's some other things happening at my school right now, for example, and it's really fascinating how everyone has made an interpretation about everyone else when in reality, there's pockets of people that think similarly and just need to find each other. And so what I've been finding on my parenting journey is there was a woman at the soccer games Stella Header for Soccer match on Saturday and and quick side note afterwards someone asked did you win? And she goes I won because I had fun and I was like yay.

Speaker 1: 27:40

That's a parenting win.

Speaker 4: 27:42

She goes that's what my mother always says and I'm like, oh gosh, but yeah, it was a proud moment. But as we were talking, it was interesting because we clearly parent very similar and it's apparent how that runs counterculture that it's OK to have the small house, it's OK to have the simple life, it's OK to have downtime. Yesterday my son just wanted to watch a Harry Potter movie with me and, as much as I need to be mindful of screen time, I thought this is great. Let's just cuddle on the couch and chill out, because clearly he needed it too.

Speaker 4: 28:22

So, learning how to live your values doesn't necessarily mean always doing things and I think, or promoting that you did it with social media brings this other layer of people need to know. Or and I think those are the conversations with parents that I just want to continue to have that hey, if your kid is involved in something, absolutely you and, as the parent, get to support them and be in the best version of what they need that to be. But I know very clearly now that my son meets cross country to be a social time and that is enough because that's what he needs, whereas his French horn time he takes seriously and it doesn't need to be a social. I don't know how you talk and play French horn at the same time. I think if ever there was someone who could figure that out, he could but point taken. So I think it's equally, as parents, as much as we need to heal and have those values, conversation and be more intentional, to just keep sharing with other people. Because I can tell you right now in April, you're nodding your head for the listeners. We're having conversation after conversation and everyone keeps saying why are we still trying to keep up with the Joneses? What does it even matter?

Speaker 4: 29:36

And I was at a women's wellness retreat yesterday and the whole group of women basically walked away going, if I don't change, after COVID. That's on me Like after that entire time we lived a different life, we wanted to be a different way, and now it's ultimately up to me. And it was interesting because one woman actually said I just have to learn how to be uncomfortable, because going against the grain isn't always easy. But I think there's so many more parents out there, so many more moms out there like us, and so I'm just here to advocate for you, to say it's OK to not pad your kid's resume starting in middle school so they get an honor roll in high school, or so their high school resume is so amazing they get into an Ivy League school that maybe you went to. It's OK to let them find their own path and they will be extraordinary, as long as you allow them to be.

Speaker 4: 30:36

And I'm living it with you and it's very uncomfortable, like I said, that cross-country meet I could just hear it in my brain why is he running faster? Where is he already? And then he comes around this corner with the biggest grin I think I've ever seen on that kid's mug and I thought I don't even know what I'm worried about.

Speaker 1: 30:55

That's pretty awesome. And to circle this back, leis, I think that it really does come down to how we're role modeling, yeah, how we're the stories that we're telling ourselves, what we're embracing as far as why we matter, and I think, just the role modeling in realizing we're not going to be everything. I think you actually you taught me this a long time ago You're like I can't do it all. Actually, that's not how you said it, but I feel like you had said something.

Speaker 4: 31:27

It sounds like me.

Speaker 1: 31:29

At one point. We're like I can't do all of those things at once. I say those same things in my household and I say that oftentimes to myself and I'm working on embracing that Like OK, what's in line with my values, and recognizing I can't do all of the things. It's unruly, simplistic. A real quick side note, but then I do think that I want to come back to talking about the self-worth piece a little bit. More is. For years I've watched people overachieve and, as somebody who a lot of people confide in for both of us and, as you'd mentioned, we both have a lot of experience working in higher ed I used to have a lot of college students in my office on a regular basis processing why they weren't enjoying their experience and what I realized was there's a culture that numbs by being over just being overcommitted, yes, and I think by being really busy.

Speaker 1: 32:35

Then you don't have to get deep on yourself. You don't have the time to ask the hard questions, and so I would like listeners, if you're willing to do this alongside us, to take a moment today to just ask yourself why do I matter?

Speaker 4: 32:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:56

And not because you are wearing all of the hats and spinning all of the plates, but because you are here for a reason. And I bet if you get really quiet with yourself and you don't allow yourself to get distracted by all the external things, that answer is going to be a lot clearer and the path of what you need to do is going to be clearer.

Speaker 4: 33:21

The solitude. To find the answer in the quiet space is a gift and a skill definitely to hone, and I find that in the solitude there's also a lot of solidarity with other people around you. And that's really what I'm most excited about is to start putting a voice out there to normalize parenting and what we're currently struggling against and how we can work together to really understand, first and foremost as parents, why do you matter, as a human being, why do you matter? And then how do we foster that in kids? Because it's one thing to heal ourselves, but then if we're on our own healing journey, but the messages we keep sending our kids, consciously or subconsciously, is that still of performative, high achievement based run, run, run, be overly involved in all the things? They see through it. They absolutely see through it, but you wanted to come back to worth and achievement.

Speaker 1: 34:28

Nope, you're good, keep going. I like this.

Speaker 4: 34:33

No. Well, there was a woman years ago who said to me I get more things done by 8 AM than most people do in a week. And I looked at her and said I hope you can unpack that, because I just thought I don't want that and that's I get it, but that's going to catch up to you one way or another. If looking at your resume is what defines your worth, then I'm probably a big zero, because when you look at the CEOs out there and all these status titles that we put out there, we've done such great work as women and as mothers to really sink into this idea of what defines success for me and what are my values as a family. And maybe you haven't taken the time, but I know you know those two questions, listeners.

Speaker 4: 35:31

I know you have heard it here a lot, I know you've heard and seen it elsewhere, but at the end of the day, it's back to April's point mattering how you define, how you matter. It has nothing to do about the external things, nothing. And until you get that, until we get that as parents, our kids won't get that, because all they're going to see is all the things. And I think there's a fine line because I was talking, talking with someone this morning and I said you can absolutely, like my son, can absolutely be proud of his achievements. That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about having the achievement define you Because, ultimately, who are you then without the achievement? That's what the conversation comes down to and that's where things can get really murky with Adolescents and high school age kids.

Speaker 1: 36:31

Yeah, it's you know. I think it's a constant practice and I think you know, when I think through what the first step is. I think it really is getting quiet with ourselves and asking what exactly do we want for our life to feel like?

Speaker 4: 36:52

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:54

What are our values, what it will get in clear, I think, on what kind of life you want to live and then also how you want to role model that for your children We'll show you the path on what steps to take, whether that's maybe Eliminating some things, maybe that's changing the conversation in your household and with your family, or maybe that's just really guarding yourself on your own personal thoughts and a willingness to say yes to everything. Yeah, I Think that's probably the first step. What do you think, lisa?

Speaker 4: 37:29

Yeah, I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree. So you know we talk a lot about values. You know, going back to that, and that is inherent to our elevate program, it's a, it's a key concept that we have to identify first. But if you haven't done that as a family unit, I would start with yourself what are your own values? Because we guarantee that if you can identify those, decisions become a lot easier. Saying no becomes a lot easier. No, I'm not gonna buy that bag of junk food because I'm a healthy person. Or I'm only gonna buy one bag of junk food in that 20, you know you find the balance for you.

Speaker 1: 38:11

Yeah, I definitely would agree to start where you said yeah, and if listeners are curious about the elevate program, we have a link to that in the show notes as well. Yeah, absolutely kicking off in just a couple weeks. Pretty excited about that one.

Speaker 4: 38:25

Yeah, that's super exciting. But you know, as parents, I would really love to elevate this conversation of achievement toxicity because I know that you're feeling it, I you know. It's wild to me how I can have a conversation with a middle school Parents and they're like oh, they're already burned out on soccer. And I'm like, well, I guess that makes sense. They've been doing it for six years because you can start now as a first grader by us. I mean, you can start earlier than that, but through the school system.

Speaker 4: 38:53

And I thought, how wild if I had a six-year career path back when we were young, to your point, you made earlier apes, I'd be in high school. That that in and of itself is telling. And again, expose your kids fine, to things that they want to know about and learn about, but I think do so in a way that works for the family structure and Supports the values for sure. So I'm figuring it out too. I'm catching myself all the time with, oh, oh, he can run faster, for example, in cross-country, and then equally like, no, he's winning in his own way, getting his needs met, it's a practice, it's not about a college resume when he's a sixth grader.

Speaker 1: 39:40

Well, as you can hear, listeners, we are practicing right alongside you and we are so grateful that you show up with us every week as we are growing, and Would love to challenge you to grow alongside us. Any last thoughts, lisa?

Speaker 4: 39:57

Just hang in there, parents, and definitely stay connected with us. If you haven't already joined the email list, please do so, because we send additional and different information there to you and here's, here's, to your Parenting journey.

Speaker 1: 40:13

All right, on that note, it is closing time. Cheers to good karma.

Speaker 5: 40:18

Thank you for listening to this entire podcast. I hope this episode has left you feeling curious and inspired. This podcast is intended to create expansion in your life through unique stories and shared experiences, and if you enjoy today's episode, I have a request. I'd like to ask you to share this podcast with your friends and family. I bet they'd enjoy it just as much as you have. And, if you found value, please share this on your social media outlets. That is good karma in action, my friends. All right, it is now closing time. Cheers to good karma and the power to choose joy.

Speaker 3: 40:57

If you like this, tell your friends.

Speaker 5: 41:01

Stay tuned for the end because we have outtakes and now?

Speaker 2: 41:06

Now for the outtakes, and now for the outtakes hold on.

Speaker 1: 41:10

I'm totally using this as outtake. Go for it, oh.

Speaker 3: 41:16

That was fun, I got tongue-tied. Hey, you've been listening. Test Test one, two, three, four.

Speaker 1: 41:25

Okay, now say hey, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 3: 41:29

Hey, welcome to the podcast. You're really great. Everyone, everyone that's listening to this podcast, even if they don't even hear the rest, even if they only can listen to a Part of it because of a screaming baby You're all really awesome.

Speaker 5: 41:45

Yeah, thanks for listening.

Speaker 3: 41:47

Bye over now. Thanks for listening.